RoadTraveler.net – Page 29 – Trucks, Tech, Reviews, ADV Travel

August 19, 2015February 18, 2017

Toyo M/T 255/85R16 Part 5

Mud terrain tires are happiest off-pavement

It’s time to continue telling this story, too much has passed, time for closure and for a small blog revival. Depending on your point of view, particularly if you are a Toyo Open Country M/T fan, you may consider this a not-so-happy ending. We will get there together…eventually.

Within ten days of ownership these LT255/85R16E Toyos saw many miles of both graded byways and less traveled four-wheel-drive roads, but nothing one would consider extreme four-wheel-drive use or abuse. The on-payment towing miles involved heavy but not maximum loads, or excessively high freeway speeds. The trailer parts run to town and back added some unloaded highway miles, but of course the tires were appropriately inflated for pavement travel.

My hunting partner Charlie has been running the 33.5-inch tall LT295/70R17E Toyo Open Country M/T tires on his 2007 Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel since new. He’s never been thrilled with their longevity, getting about 30,000 miles from each set, and by that mileage they are gone. He doesn’t drive hard or aggressively, but he does use his truck as a truck, and typically not a daily-driver. His rig sees some loads, mostly the occasional pulling of a moderate travel trailer (approximately 6,500 pounds), plus some bed cargo, and recently more highway miles running between Nevada and Oregon. One of his observations and comments regarding the Toyo M/T that I’ve never forgotten was that the tread seems to “almost melt off the casings” when towing. Before we get to the wear, there was another development during this trip I want to share.

255/85R16E Toyo Open Country M/T. A great, very rugged tire, but not immune to puncture. — 255/85R16E Toyo Open Country M/T. A very rugged tire, but not immune to puncture.

No Tire Is Immune From Damage

Even the most rugged tires are relatively fragile when the conditions are right. They are all just rubber balloons, relatively soft compared to the hard and sometimes sharp and pointy objects we pilot them over. A few years ago while on a very remote section of trail with a large group of backcountry 4WD travelers, I cut a sidewall on one of my Dick Cepek F-C II tires. I received a good ribbing from a few guys for running thin, 2-ply sidewalls. My assessment then was the same as it is today, 3-ply sidewalls are nice and can help, I like and sometimes even prefer them, but they are also sometimes unreasonably worshiped. Again, any tire can be compromised, and I won’t avoid running a particular tire just because it doesn’t have a 3-ply sidewall.

We Have A Leak

Midweek it was apparent that the right-rear tire was lower than the others, all had been lowered for off-highway travel. The first measurement used was my keen eye, followed by a tire pressure gauge; there was obviously a leak. Assuming the tread had been damaged, I pulled out my tools and prepared to repair the tire with a plug. Charlie was excited to watch the procedure, and I started looking for the signs of a puncture and squirting glass cleaner on possible sites.

Spraying and probing several possible holes the location of the leak remained a mystery, which is not surprising for a small, slow leak. I was cautious with the probe, avoiding creating a hole where one didn’t already exist.

Air loss was moderate and we were traveling slowly in the backcountry until heading home, so I decided I’d just keep filling it as needed, and save the spare for if or when things got worse. The leak remained steady and we were able to finish our hunting trip using the F-350 without concern. For the highway drive home I filled the tire a little higher than the others, kept an eye on it, and it was fine. Then I drove to my local Les Schwab Tires for an expert diagnosis.

A hard to find leak showed up immediately once in a tire water tank.

Oh No, It’s A Sidewall Puncture

Hard to find slow leaks are easier to locate once a tire and wheel are removed from the truck and submerged in a tank. That was the case here, with telltale bumbles emanating from the outer sidewall. Ouch, a sidewall puncture on an almost new tire! If I’d thought to look for and located the sidewall leak I would have plugged it while in the bush, or pulled and mounted the spare. The tire was very young though wearing quickly on the rear axle, but still had enough tread remaining to qualify for a new, 100% replacement.

Air bubbles in the lower-right corner of the photo.

Sidewall puncture air bubbles close up on a LT255/85R16E Toyo Open Country M/T. — Sidewall puncture air bubbles close up on a 255/85R16E Toyo Open Country M/T.

October 1, 2014October 3, 2014

2012 Jeep JK Tire Selection Dilemma

With all my posts about tires it’s not surprising that I receive mail asking for opinions and advice on tires. A gentleman named Guy from Washington recently asked for my input. Below are his questions and my replies. My review and comments on the 255/85R16 Toyo M/T on my old F-350 will continue.

Howdy, hope you can help me a bit with a tire selection dilemma: 2012 two-door JK, that I use as a daily driver here in Wenatchee, Washington. Also do a couple of road trips every year, 2000 – 3000 miles each. Hunting. Fishing. Some overlanding. Did the 600 mile WABDR this past summer. I’d like to use the same tires all year, snow, rain, heat.

The two-door JK is a nice platform, I was shopping Jeep JKs online just a few days ago, including the two-door models. Sounds like your Jeep sees a nice mix of uses. As much as I’m a tire aficionado who tests and often owns more than one set of tires for a particular platform, there are advantages to picking a set of all-around treads and using them until they’re ready to be replaced.

Very basic Jeep. Manual transmission, 4.10 gears, aftermarket air lockers front & rear. 1.5″ Teraflex leveling kit (springs).

Sounds nicely set-up. There’s much to be said for lower lifts, and I love manual transmissions. Aftermarket selectable air lockers, presumably ARB Air Lockers, are accessories that offer a level of control over traction and wheel rotation that is only available with selectable lockers.

ARB Air Locker and 4.88:1 gears during setup

I bought a set of used 16×9″ rims and E-rated 265/75/16 BFG AT’s a week or two after I got the Jeep. Killer deal, $1k for five rims and tires. I’ve put another 25,000 miles on those tires, and they’re getting worn. So I need tires soon. I could just replace them with more 265’s, but they’re a little short.

Several years ago the first aftermarket tires I put on my V8 4Runner were 265/75R16. I agree that 265s are a bit short, most are notably smaller than 32-inches tall. Depending on the tire and tread chosen and the actual height, the advantages to stepping up to a 33-inch-tall tire are quite noticeable. Even with a short thirty-three (32.8″) the approximately one-inch in overall diameter will lift your Jeep a solid half-inch, everywhere. The best lift is tire lift.

I like the 255’s, roughly 33×10’s. Nice! But, I’m afraid they won’t work with my 16×9’s.

You are correct, in addition to being too wide according to the tire manufactures, a 9-inch wheel is a poor choice for a 255 tire for our uses, while a 7–8 inch wheel would be prefect. A 9-inch wheel is also wide for a 265, I prefer to run a 265/7x tire on a stock 7–8 inch wheel. I’ve not shopped for Jeep wheels recently, but I’d image there are many high-quality, original equipment, aluminum take-off wheels for sale on Craigslist. I’ve been a huge fan of the 255/85 size since the early 1990s and have been using them steadily on at least one of my four-wheel-drives since 1998.

New Toyo M/T LT265/75R16E being mounted on 2-door 2005 TJ Rubicon Unlimited

Simple solution is just 285’s, but… I fear that’s an awful lot of tire for a little two-door JK… Maybe ditch the 16×9 wheels? I do like the way they look, but I could swap to a more narrow wheel & tire combo happily.

Surely 285s will work on your 9-inch wheels and that is a simple solution. Tread choices in 285/75R16 are almost endless. However, I’m not a fan of using wheels that are on the wide end of specifications. For 285s I prefer to run a 7.5-inch (the minimum) or 8-inch wheel, both for how the tire fits the wheel and the narrower overall width. I don’t care for tires and wheels that protrude further than necessary. I’ve run a few sets of 285 tires over the past several years out of necessity or a desire to run a particular tread that was not available in a 255, but I’d almost always prefer a 255/8x if I could get what I’m looking for.

Ditching the 9-inch-wide wheels would be my suggestion regardless of what tire you purchase. Choosing wheels that are at least 7.5-inches wide but no wider than 8-inches, will allow you run any of the tire sizes we are discussing here; 265/75R16, 255/85R/16, or 285/75R16.

Toyo M/T tires, new, unmounted, left-to-right: LT265/75R16E, LT255/85R16E, LT285/75R16E — Toyo M/T tires, new, unmounted, left-to-right:
LT265/75R16E, LT255/85R16E, LT285/75R16E

Have four heavy-duty old style tire chains that are a little big on 265’s and fit 285’s real snug.

One old set of tire chains I have fit both 265/75 and 255/85 tires similarly, I believe both tire sizes use the same chains. My chains are too small for 285s.

And of course I haven’t quite made up my mind re tire type either. The AT’s have done surprisingly well, but I find myself looking hard at the Toyo MT’s and Mickey Thompson MT’s. My son runs 33×12.50 Mickey Thompsons – and they’re terrific off-road, but I’m not that impressed with them on pavement.

When I finish telling the story of using the Toyo M/T on my F-350 the rapid wear might surprise a few readers. I’m a fan of Toyo tires, but when I can, I much prefer a tire that will offer less noise and longer wear. Of course tire wear is often specific to the platform, driver, and use.

There are a set of Mickey Thompson MTZ tires sitting in my shop mounted and ready for use on my Tundra, but have only seen about 2,000 miles of travel. I like them, but I’ve preferred the Dick Cepek FC-II treads I’ve been running for most of the Tundra’s miles. The FC-II (replaced by the Fun Country) has less noise, excellent siping, and have been slow to show wear on everything from an F-350 diesel, the Tundra, and a built V8 4Runner. Of course neither the Fun Country nor the Mickey Thompson MTZ tread are available in the 255/85R16 size.

The biggest decision you have to make is tire size. If you chose either a 265/75 or 285/75 your choices are many, both a blessing and a curse. If you decide to try a set of 255/85R16 rubber, then it will be relatively easy because the choices are relatively few.

If the 255 size wins, and you decide you don’t want a loud or faster wearing mud-terrain tire (Maxxis Bighorn, Toyo M/T, or BFG KM2), I’d suggest you consider a set of Cooper S/T MAXX. The S/T MAXX has only been manufactured in the 255/85R16 size since the first quarter of 2014. I’m currently running a set in the 255/80R17 size on my 4Runner.

September 14, 2014

Toyo M/T 255/85R16 Part 4 – Starting Slow

This blog has been defunct for too long, and I’d considered taking it offline. However, it continues to get measurable views everyday, without me posting a single word. During the 19-month hiatus a few new readers even subscribed, apparently looking forward to future posts should any be forthcoming… So instead of killing the blog, here is a small revival effort. Thanks for visiting RoadTraveler.net.

James

Low Pressure Off-Highway Rollin’

With the travel trailer repairs completed, it was finally time for some off-pavement travel. I dropped the front and rear tires to 25 and 20 psi respectively, which was on the high side for me but low enough for the truck, tires, and terrain. The F-350 carries much weight above the front axle so keeping the pressure slightly higher than on a lighter rig helps insure the beads don’t unseat, and is better for handling, control and safety on the faster sections.

It takes low pressure and/or lots of weight to make a Toyo M/T budge like this.

Mud Terrain tires look cool, but I’m old and wise enough that looks alone don’t drive my choices. If I didn’t want a high-void tire for rugged backcountry use I’d pick something else, possibly a tread with less noise and better potential longevity. However, I use this truck for plenty of off-highway travel and in the LT255/85R16 size, tread choices are few and most are aggressive traction tires.

The notably high quality construction and roundness of most Toyo tires allows balancing with relatively little weight, which contributes to their good road manners. With only a few exceptions most Toyo M/Ts are constructed with a 7-ply tread and stout 3-ply sidewalls. Though friends have criticized me in the past for using tires with mere 2-ply sidewalls, my reply has always been; all tires are soft balloons, and are punctured relatively easily. For decades most tires have had 2-ply sidewalls, only in the past few years have 3-ply sidewall enthusiast rubber become both popular and offered in several flavors.

But, when I needed to make a choice between the Maxxis Bighorns or the Toyo M/T, it was this rugged reputation, quality construction, and 3-ply sidewalls that made the Toyos the arguably better choice for an old F-350.

Let’s just see about that.

February 4, 2013February 4, 2013

Toyo M/T LT255/85R16E Part 3 (Trailer Leaks)

Unloaded But Dripping Wet

I parked and leveled the Avion with Charlie’s grass between our trailers. My provisions were unloaded from the F350’s bed, mirrors moved to their in position, and the RV trailer wiring connector was moved—from directly under the Reunel rear bumper up to the frame—to prevent unceremonious removal during the occasional butt drag. These few chores are necessary to convert Pull Dog from old RV highway tug to full-sized backroads hunting machine. Plenty of brush is still bucked on narrow trails by the large towing mirror frame structures, but they continue to handle the abuse while I do my best to thread a long and wide truck through all manner of 4WD trails.

Instead of a leisurely day preparing for hunting early the next morning, I discovered my water heater was leaking from a fitting in the top of the tank. Intermittent water-pump cycling the night before signaled there was a problem, but switching off the pump allowed for some much needed sleep. The cracked plastic fitting would not hold pressure if the water pump was on, and water was dripping pretty fast. Once I started touching things the drips morphed into a spray.

I spent a couple hours trying to saw, chip, and pick the plastic threaded prices from the tank without buggering the old metal threads inside the heater. Once removed, the challenge was to reconnect everything with the pieces and fittings that remained; even if it meant no hot water. Try as I might, the combination of 1978 copper pipe mixed with newer but still vintage plastic tubing and fittings—with a piece of the puzzle now missing—resulted in leaks. Not having hot water would have made for a slightly cold camp, but the old Avion furnace works most of the time and could have picked up the slack. However, with the plumbing not holding pressure, hot or cold, I had no way to use any of the 100 gallons of precious agua I’d hauled deep into the high desert backcountry. This was not okay, I didn’t come prepared for, nor did I want to camp without any water for a week.

Cooper and plastic 20–35 years old. — Cooper and plastic 20–34 years old. In need of TLC, but hopefully a patch would work.

Frustrated, I considered a night run back to Winnemucca, two hours each way, to search for parts. Wal Mart would have been my only choice, and while they would have a few RV supplies, would they have the plumbing pieces I needed? Likely not. I cooled my jets, had a beer, ate dinner and knew that I was going to spend opening day chasing parts instead of deer.

The view over the bow. A 45 mph dirt road and a nice day for a drive.

250 Miles of Highway; Unloaded

The good news was that I logged 250 miles of highway driving on the Toyos without a load. Of course I lowered the tires from high towing psi to more moderate pressures for better ride, wear, and traction; 48 in the front and 35 in the rear.

Tiger motorhome traveling south from Oregon.

Once in Winnemucca, I was able to find everything I needed at a real hardware store, CB Brown True Value. Old fashioned hardware stores can be hard to find, particularly in big cities, but a big box chain store never compares. The staff was knowledgeable, plus service and selection was the best I’d seen in a long while. I loaded up on valves, fittings, and pipe, much more than I needed to insure I had everything I might possibly want after returning to camp. Several days later I returned $100 worth of excess parts.

Before heading back to the outback of Nevada, I met an old friend for lunch, reconnecting after a couple years. It turned out that my eventual repair involved some hours of trial-and-error, bending cooper pipe, adapting fittings and such, before water no longer flowed to the floor. My repairs were good, maybe even permanent, with both cold and hot water for the remaining six days.

Toyo M/T—Smooth Operators

The Toyos continued to display one of their best features, that of a balanced, good riding, aggressive tire with relatively little noise. It’s no mystery why these tires are very popular, both with genuine off-highway users and those that just like the look. After 273 miles of driving, 20 on dirt with the remainder on-pavement around 65 mph, fuel economy was 14.2 mpg in both directions.

Dirt Road Travelin' — Dirt Road Travelin’

Finally this dog can hunt. Days and hundreds of off-highway 4×4 miles lie ahead.

Big surprises are coming too…I guarantee it. 😉

January 26, 2013August 1, 2016

Toyo M/T LT255/85R16E, Loaded, On-Highway

Just two days after the Toyos were mounted it was time to put them to work. The first part of my testing involved towing our vintage 30-foot Avion travel trailer. I often weigh my outfits before heading out, though I was leaving much later than planned, so I bypassed the local truck scales. For trips like this with 65 gallons of water in the trailer, plenty of food, tools, and warm clothes for a week of hunting and dry camping, the Avion weighs close to 8,000 pounds. The F350’s bed was loaded with 45 gallons of extra water, a generator, cans of gas and diesel, and some tools. From experience I know the gross-combined-weight (GCW) was 16,000 pounds, give or take a few hundred.

ZF-S5 manual tranny runs hot. It's nice to have a gauge, run premium synthetic oil, and change the lube often. — ZF-S5 manual tranny runs hot. It’s nice to have a gauge, run premium synthetic oil, and change the lube often.

Coupled to the truck with a standard weight-distribution hitch using 1,000-pound spring bars and a friction sway control, the F350’s stock suspension handles the load easily. The Toyo M/Ts were pumped to 55 psi in front and 70 psi in the rear, more than enough for the load on each axle.

The old International 7.3L T444E diesel provides plenty of twist, particularly when coupled to the ZF-S5 manual tranny and factory 4.10:1 gearing.

Eastbound And Down, Loaded-Up And Truckin’

Traveling mostly 65 mph, the old Ford logged 10.67 mpg at my first fuel stop in Winnemucca, Nevada, after the first 170 miles. It would be nice to get better fuel economy but the load and speed had everything to do with the results. I don’t mind driving slow sometimes, but I-can’t-drive-55. Almost this entire first segment of freeway hauling was done in 5th/overdrive, but with 4.10:1 ring-and-pinions the old 7.3L International is spinning faster and using more fuel than newer Super Dutys with their taller 3.73:1 gears.

Onward and upward I traveled into north central Nevada. Still rolling on pavement but now on a rural two-lane highway, it’s not uncommon to be the only rig on the road at night in remote Nevada. At another two-lane junction there was enough light for my camera and mini tripod to capture the old school glow.

The tires tracked well, the 255 width being about perfect for rolling down the road, rarely pulled by ruts or edges like wider tires often are.

After a brief stop at Denio Junction to top the fuel tanks before leaving the pavement, I rolled into camp late; about 9:00 p.m. Thankfully Charlie and I had used the same BLM spot two years prior, so finding my way, even at night wasn’t a problem. I parked on a fairly level 52-ft long section of dirt, everything still hitched, leaving truck, trailer, and camp setup chores for the morning. There is much to be said for just walking through the man-sized door of a travel trailer and going to sleep in an old luxury apartment on wheels.

Pull Dog: 17 years young with his 'older woman', a 35-year-old Avion travel trailer. — Pull Dog: 17 years young with his ‘older woman’, a 35-year-old Avion travel trailer.

Continuing…

December 30, 2012September 14, 2014

Toyo M/T LT255/85R16E Mount and Balance

To balance these 255/85 Toyos we used the static method that I prefer for big tires, but had never used on these forged aluminum 16×7-inch F350 wheels. Living up to their reputation, the high-quality Toyo M/Ts balanced well with relatively little weight. In addition, the Centramatic tire/wheel balancers I’ve run on this old Ford for several years insure the assemblies remain perfectly balanced with every revolution of the wheels.

Cleaning the mating surface and checking the trueness & balance of the old, but excellent Alcoa-made Ford wheels.

One of the wheels has a little bend in the rim, though it still balances well. We used it for the Remington Mud Brute spare. — One of the wheels has a little bend in the rim (approx. center of photo), though it still balances well. We used it for the Remington Mud Brute spare.

I didn’t need a spare Toyo as I had one remaining LT255/85R16 tire in my shop. It was a new Remington Mud Brute I found on closeout a couple years ago at a local tire shop for a mere $40.

It had been years since a set of Toyo M/Ts rolled under the F350, and they saw few miles, so I didn’t remember if they exhibited their common pull-to-the-right on my Ford. If pulling was present on the F350, I was willing to either live with or adjust for it, depending on the severity and my overall satisfaction with the Toyos. Unfortunately caster and camber are not easily adjusted on these old straight-axle trucks, and doing so involves installing an aftermarket ball joint.

It's been years since Pull Dog didn't have to wear and-me-down shoes — It’s been years since Pull Dog hasn’t had to wear hand-me-down shoes.

Triple checking there’s clearance for the static balance tape-weights near the center of the wheel — Triple checking the clearance for static balance tape-weights near the center of the wheel

Pulling but not drooling

The Toyo M/Ts did pull to the right, though it was not nearly as objectionable as on my newer IFS Toyotas. This was partially due to the lighter, highly-boosted power steering, as well as the much sloppier feel of the old recirculating ball gearbox. Since I often steer the manual transmission F350 with my left hand atop the wheel, which easily countered the right pull, I decided to wait and see about making mechanical adjustments.

Balanced and rolling very smoothly down the highway with relatively little noise, there were no surprises regarding the road manners of the Toyos. A couple days later the tire pressures were increase for heavy hauling, the truck bed and travel trailer were loaded, and the whole outfit headed toward the backcountry for a week of camping, deer hunting, and serious tire testing. The results were surprising!

This is how I like my tires and wheels to fit, very little if any protruding beyond the fender — This is how I like my tires and wheels to fit, with very little if any protruding beyond the fender.

November 15, 2012December 30, 2012

Toyo M/T 255/85R16E Purchase

My friend Sean needed tires soon but didn’t want to spend the money to purchase my Dick Cepek F-C II treads I’d offered, until he suddenly needed tires now. A freeway road-hazard punctured one of his old and very worn Toyo A/T 265/75R16E treads. His wife Shelly was driving their 2002 F350 crew-cab, 7.3L Power Stroke, pulling their loaded 36-foot triple-axle toy-hauler with all the family on-board…at 70 miles-per-hour. Obviously in-synch with the rig, ten seconds prior to the impending blowout, Shelly commented, “Wow, this wind is really bad…” as she felt the instability of the low psi tire on the right rear of the pickup.

265/75 Toyo A/T with washer in tread — LT265/75R16E Toyo A/T with a washer in the tread.
All tires are relatively fragile, and the tread is tougher than the sidewalls.

The puncture lead to a loss of air, an overheated tire, and ultimately a blow out. We should all take note that Shelly was piloting a large diesel pickup and pulling a huge fifth-wheel trailer when she had the blowout…yet the Ford didn’t roll-over? She just calmly guided the outfit over to the right shoulder. Nothing else happened. Why? Certainly it was because of Newton’s first law of motion (paraphrased): an object will stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. The force of a simple blowout was not enough to roll the Ford F350, nor most Ford Explorers, however if the driver inputs excessive amounts of steering and/or braking, or there are other forces involved…maybe.

265/75 Toyo A/T tread separation — A classic tread separation blowout and an example of why under-inflation and/or overloaded tires are so dangerous. This can be the result.

Sean changed his mind and decided he’d buy my Dick Cepek F-C II treads, I had a used set of BFG A/T tires to trade-in, and with $200 more from my billfold and I was able to buy a new set of Toyo M/Ts in 255/85R16E for the old F350, immediately before a deer hunting trip.

Toyo 255-85 vs FCII 285-75 IMG_5511 - Version 2 — Toyo M/T 255/85R16E took the place of the much loved Dick Cepek F-C II 285/75R16D treads. Was this a good decision?

Next, mount & balance.